Lesson 8: Conversational Latin

ille, illa, illud that (Demonstrative Pronoun)

Introduction

The demonstrative pronoun "ille, illa, illud" means "that" in English and is one of the most important words for pointing out people, things, or ideas that are distant from the speaker - either in space, time, or thought. Unlike the English "that," which remains unchanged, Latin "ille" changes its form to match the gender, number, and case of the noun it refers to or replaces.

Definition

ille, illa, illud - demonstrative pronoun meaning "that" (as opposed to "this"). It indicates something farther away from the speaker or something previously mentioned in conversation.

FAQ Schema

Question: What does "ille, illa, illud" mean in Latin?
Answer: "Ille, illa, illud" is a demonstrative pronoun meaning "that" in English. It refers to people, things, or concepts that are distant from the speaker in space, time, or thought. The three forms represent masculine (ille), feminine (illa), and neuter (illud) genders.

How This Word Will Be Used

In this lesson, you'll encounter "ille" in various conversational contexts - pointing out distant objects, referring to people not present, recalling past events, and contrasting with nearer items. The examples progress from simple identification to more complex conversational exchanges, showing how Romans actually used this word in daily speech.

Educational Schema

Subject: Language Learning - Classical Latin
Level: Beginner to Intermediate
Topic: Demonstrative Pronouns - ille, illa, illud
Format: Structured lesson with interleaved text, full sentences, and grammatical explanations
Learning Objectives:
- Recognize and use all forms of ille, illa, illud
- Understand agreement with nouns in gender, number, and case
- Apply demonstrative pronouns in conversational contexts
- Distinguish between near (hic) and far (ille) demonstratives

Key Takeaways

• ille changes form based on gender (masculine/feminine/neuter), number (singular/plural), and case

• It refers to things distant from the speaker or previously mentioned

• Often contrasts with "hic, haec, hoc" (this)

• Can stand alone as a pronoun or modify a noun as an adjective

• Essential for natural Latin conversation and storytelling

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Part A (Interleaved English and Latin Text)

8.1 Quis who est is ille that vir? man?

8.2 Illa that fēmina woman pulchra beautiful est. is.

8.3 Vidēsne do you see illud that aedificium building magnum? large?

8.4 Nōn not crēdō I believe illīs those hominibus. men.

8.5 Ille that man mē me herī yesterday salūtāvit. greeted.

8.6 Dā give mihi to me illum that librum, book, quaesō. please.

8.7 Illa that diēs day fēlīx happy erat. was.

8.8 Quid what dē about illā that rē matter sentīs? do you think?

8.9 Illō at that tempore time puer boy eram. I was.

8.10 Omnēs all illōs those flōrēs flowers amō. I love.

8.11 Nōnne surely illud that vērum true est? is?

8.12 Cum with illīs those amīcīs friends cēnābō. I will dine.

8.13 Ille he dīxit said sē himself venīre to come nōn not posse. to be able.

8.14 Meminī I remember illīus of that diēī day clārē. clearly.

8.15 Illae those puellae girls cantant sing bene. well.

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Part B (Complete Natural Sentences)

8.1 Quis est ille vir? Who is that man?

8.2 Illa fēmina pulchra est. That woman is beautiful.

8.3 Vidēsne illud aedificium magnum? Do you see that large building?

8.4 Nōn crēdō illīs hominibus. I don't trust those men.

8.5 Ille mē herī salūtāvit. He greeted me yesterday.

8.6 Dā mihi illum librum, quaesō. Please give me that book.

8.7 Illa diēs fēlīx erat. That was a happy day.

8.8 Quid dē illā rē sentīs? What do you think about that matter?

8.9 Illō tempore puer eram. At that time I was a boy.

8.10 Omnēs illōs flōrēs amō. I love all those flowers.

8.11 Nōnne illud vērum est? Surely that is true?

8.12 Cum illīs amīcīs cēnābō. I will dine with those friends.

8.13 Ille dīxit sē venīre nōn posse. He said that he could not come.

8.14 Meminī illīus diēī clārē. I remember that day clearly.

8.15 Illae puellae cantant bene. Those girls sing well.

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Part C (Latin Text Only)

8.1 Quis est ille vir?

8.2 Illa fēmina pulchra est.

8.3 Vidēsne illud aedificium magnum?

8.4 Nōn crēdō illīs hominibus.

8.5 Ille mē herī salūtāvit.

8.6 Dā mihi illum librum, quaesō.

8.7 Illa diēs fēlīx erat.

8.8 Quid dē illā rē sentīs?

8.9 Illō tempore puer eram.

8.10 Omnēs illōs flōrēs amō.

8.11 Nōnne illud vērum est?

8.12 Cum illīs amīcīs cēnābō.

8.13 Ille dīxit sē venīre nōn posse.

8.14 Meminī illīus diēī clārē.

8.15 Illae puellae cantant bene.

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Part D (Grammar Explanation)

Grammar Rules for ille, illa, illud

The demonstrative pronoun "ille, illa, illud" follows specific patterns that English speakers must master for conversational Latin:

Forms of ille, illa, illud:

SINGULAR:

• Nominative: ille (m.), illa (f.), illud (n.)

• Genitive: illīus (all genders)

• Dative: illī (all genders)

• Accusative: illum (m.), illam (f.), illud (n.)

• Ablative: illō (m./n.), illā (f.)

PLURAL:

• Nominative: illī (m.), illae (f.), illa (n.)

• Genitive: illōrum (m./n.), illārum (f.)

• Dative: illīs (all genders)

• Accusative: illōs (m.), illās (f.), illa (n.)

• Ablative: illīs (all genders)

Common Mistakes

1. Gender confusion: English speakers often forget to match the gender

   • WRONG: ille puella (masculine with feminine noun)

   • RIGHT: illa puella (feminine with feminine noun)

2. Using nominative for all cases:

   • WRONG: Videō ille vir (nominative in object position)

   • RIGHT: Videō illum virum (accusative for direct object)

3. Confusing ille with hic:

   • hic = this (near)

   • ille = that (far)

4. Forgetting genitive singular is illīus for all genders:

   • Not illī or illae in genitive singular

   • Always illīus regardless of gender

Comparison with English

Unlike English "that" which never changes form, Latin "ille" must:

• Match the gender of what it refers to

• Take the appropriate case based on its function

• Change for singular vs. plural

English: "I see that man" / "I speak to that man" (same form) Latin: "Videō illum virum" / "Loquor illī virō" (different cases)

Step-by-Step Guide

1. Identify what ille refers to: Is it masculine, feminine, or neuter?

2. Determine the function: Is it subject, object, possessive, etc.?

3. Choose the correct case: Nominative for subject, accusative for object, etc.

4. Apply the right ending: Match gender, number, and case

Example analysis: "Give me that book" → "that book" is direct object (accusative) and "book" (liber) is masculine Therefore: "Dā mihi illum librum"

Grammatical Summary

As Pronoun (standing alone):

• "Ille venit" = "That man comes" / "He comes"

• "Illa pulchra est" = "That woman is beautiful" / "She is beautiful"

As Adjective (with noun):

• "Ille vir venit" = "That man comes"

• "Illa fēmina pulchra est" = "That woman is beautiful"

Special uses:

• Often refers to famous people: "ille Cicerō" = "the famous Cicero"

• Indicates contrast: "hic... ille" = "this one... that one"

• In reported speech to mean "he/she said"

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Part E (Cultural Context)

For English speakers learning conversational Latin, understanding "ille" requires grasping Roman spatial and social concepts. Romans were highly conscious of proximity and distance, both physical and social. The demonstrative "ille" didn't just indicate physical distance but also psychological or temporal distance.

In Roman conversation, "ille" often carried implications beyond mere pointing. When referring to people, it could indicate respect (for someone famous or admired) or dismissal (for someone beneath notice). "Ille Catō" might mean "the great Cato," while "ille servus" could dismissively mean "that slave over there."

Romans also used "ille" temporally, referring to past times with nostalgia or disdain. "Illīs temporibus" (in those days) might introduce either golden age reminiscence or criticism of barbarous times past.

In legal and rhetorical contexts, "ille" helped structure arguments by referring back to previously mentioned points or persons. This backward-referring use is crucial for following Latin argumentation.

The contrast between "hic" (this, near me) and "ille" (that, away from me) reflected Roman attention to personal space and social hierarchy. What was "mine" (hic) versus "not mine" (ille) mattered deeply in Roman society.

Modern Latin learners should note that while English "that" is neutral, Latin "ille" always positions the speaker relative to what's discussed, making Latin inherently more perspective-dependent than English.

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Part F (Literary Citation)

From the Colloquia Scholica (Medieval school dialogues):

Part F-A (Interleaved Text)

Magister: Teacher: Quis who est is ille that puer boy quī who stat stands iuxtā next to iānuam? door?

Discipulus: Student: Ille that one est is Mārcus, Marcus, novus new discipulus. student. Venit he came ex from illā that urbe city quae which vocātur is called Mediōlānum. Milan.

Magister: Teacher: Dīc tell illī to him ut that veniat he should come hūc. here. Volō I want illum him interrogāre. to question.

Part F-B (Complete Translation)

Magister: Quis est ille puer quī stat iuxtā iānuam? Discipulus: Ille est Mārcus, novus discipulus. Venit ex illā urbe quae vocātur Mediōlānum. Magister: Dīc illī ut veniat hūc. Volō illum interrogāre.

Teacher: Who is that boy who stands next to the door? Student: That's Marcus, a new student. He came from that city which is called Milan. Teacher: Tell him to come here. I want to question him.

Part F-C (Literary Analysis)

This excerpt demonstrates typical scholastic use of demonstratives in medieval teaching dialogues. Notice how "ille" serves multiple functions: first identifying a distant person (ille puer), then as a pronoun substitute (ille est), indicating place of origin (illā urbe), and finally showing all three uses in sequence - dative indirect object (illī), followed by accusative direct object (illum). The conversation naturally incorporates demonstratives as students would actually use them.

Part F-D (Grammatical Notes)

The passage showcases key uses of "ille":

• ille puer: demonstrative adjective with masculine noun

• ille est: pronoun standing alone as subject

• ex illā urbe: ablative after preposition, feminine to match "urbe"

• dīc illī: dative for indirect object

• volō illum interrogāre: accusative as object of infinitive

Note the indirect command "dīc illī ut veniat" using subjunctive, and how "ille" shifts from pointing out someone distant to becoming the topic of conversation.

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Genre Section: Dramatic Dialogue at the Forum

Part A (Interleaved Text)

8.16 Aurēlia: Aurelia: Vidēsne do you see illum that hominem man quī who ōrātiōnem speech habet? is giving?

8.17 Lūcius: Lucius: Videō. I see. Quis who est is ille he ōrātor? orator?

8.18 Aurēlia: Aurelia: Nesciō, I don't know, sed but illa that verba words quae which dīcit he says perīculōsa dangerous sunt. are.

8.19 Lūcius: Lucius: Audiāmus let us listen propius. more closely. Fortasse perhaps illud that quod which dīcit he says vērum true est. is.

8.20 Ōrātor: Orator: Illō in that annō year cōnsulēs consuls nostrī our nōs us fefellerunt! deceived!

8.21 Aurēlia: Aurelia: Cavē! beware! Illae those custōdēs guards nōs us spectant. are watching.

8.22 Lūcius: Lucius: Timeō I fear illōs. them. Eāmus let us go domum. home.

8.23 Ōrātor: Orator: Crēdite believe mihi! me! Illa those prōmissa promises falsa false erant! were!

8.24 Aurēlia: Aurelia: Ille that man dīcit says ea those things quae which omnēs all putant think sed but nēmō no one audet dares dīcere. to say.

8.25 Lūcius: Lucius: Meminī I remember illōrum of those diērum days quandō when pāx peace erat. there was.

8.26 Aurēlia: Aurelia: Ecce! look! Illī those mīlitēs soldiers veniunt are coming hūc! here!

8.27 Lūcius: Lucius: Fugiāmus let us flee per through illam that viam street angustam! narrow!

8.28 Ōrātor: Orator: Nōlīte do not timēre fear illōs those quī who corpus body occīdunt! kill!

8.29 Aurēlia: Aurelia: Audīvistīne did you hear illud that quod which modo just dīxit? he said?

8.30 Lūcius: Lucius: Audīvī, I heard, sed but ille he insānit. is mad. Vēnī come mēcum! with me!

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Part B (Complete Natural Sentences)

8.16 Aurēlia: Vidēsne illum hominem quī ōrātiōnem habet? Aurelia: Do you see that man who is giving a speech?

8.17 Lūcius: Videō. Quis est ille ōrātor? Lucius: I see him. Who is that orator?

8.18 Aurēlia: Nesciō, sed illa verba quae dīcit perīculōsa sunt. Aurelia: I don't know, but those words he's saying are dangerous.

8.19 Lūcius: Audiāmus propius. Fortasse illud quod dīcit vērum est. Lucius: Let's listen more closely. Perhaps what he's saying is true.

8.20 Ōrātor: Illō annō cōnsulēs nostrī nōs fefellerunt! Orator: In that year our consuls deceived us!

8.21 Aurēlia: Cavē! Illae custōdēs nōs spectant. Aurelia: Be careful! Those guards are watching us.

8.22 Lūcius: Timeō illōs. Eāmus domum. Lucius: I fear them. Let's go home.

8.23 Ōrātor: Crēdite mihi! Illa prōmissa falsa erant! Orator: Believe me! Those promises were false!

8.24 Aurēlia: Ille dīcit ea quae omnēs putant sed nēmō audet dīcere. Aurelia: He's saying what everyone thinks but no one dares to say.

8.25 Lūcius: Meminī illōrum diērum quandō pāx erat. Lucius: I remember those days when there was peace.

8.26 Aurēlia: Ecce! Illī mīlitēs veniunt hūc! Aurelia: Look! Those soldiers are coming here!

8.27 Lūcius: Fugiāmus per illam viam angustam! Lucius: Let's escape through that narrow street!

8.28 Ōrātor: Nōlīte timēre illōs quī corpus occīdunt! Orator: Do not fear those who kill the body!

8.29 Aurēlia: Audīvistīne illud quod modo dīxit? Aurelia: Did you hear what he just said?

8.30 Lūcius: Audīvī, sed ille insānit. Vēnī mēcum! Lucius: I heard, but he's mad. Come with me!

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Part C (Latin Text Only)

8.16 Aurēlia: Vidēsne illum hominem quī ōrātiōnem habet?

8.17 Lūcius: Videō. Quis est ille ōrātor?

8.18 Aurēlia: Nesciō, sed illa verba quae dīcit perīculōsa sunt.

8.19 Lūcius: Audiāmus propius. Fortasse illud quod dīcit vērum est.

8.20 Ōrātor: Illō annō cōnsulēs nostrī nōs fefellerunt!

8.21 Aurēlia: Cavē! Illae custōdēs nōs spectant.

8.22 Lūcius: Timeō illōs. Eāmus domum.

8.23 Ōrātor: Crēdite mihi! Illa prōmissa falsa erant!

8.24 Aurēlia: Ille dīcit ea quae omnēs putant sed nēmō audet dīcere.

8.25 Lūcius: Meminī illōrum diērum quandō pāx erat.

8.26 Aurēlia: Ecce! Illī mīlitēs veniunt hūc!

8.27 Lūcius: Fugiāmus per illam viam angustam!

8.28 Ōrātor: Nōlīte timēre illōs quī corpus occīdunt!

8.29 Aurēlia: Audīvistīne illud quod modo dīxit?

8.30 Lūcius: Audīvī, sed ille insānit. Vēnī mēcum!

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Part D (Grammar Explanation for Genre Section)

This dramatic dialogue showcases advanced uses of "ille" in natural conversation:

Demonstrative Functions in Drama

1. Physical pointing (deictic use):

   • "illum hominem" (8.16) - pointing to someone visible

   • "illam viam angustam" (8.27) - indicating an escape route

2. Anaphoric reference (referring back):

   • "illa verba quae dīcit" (8.18) - referring to words being spoken

   • "illud quod modo dīxit" (8.29) - what was just said

3. Temporal distance:

   • "illō annō" (8.20) - that year (in the past)

   • "illōrum diērum" (8.25) - genitive plural for "of those days"

Emotional Coloring

The dramatic context shows how "ille" can carry emotional weight:

• Fear: "timeō illōs" (8.22) - distancing from danger

• Suspicion: "illae custōdēs" (8.21) - those guards (threatening)

• Dismissal: "ille insānit" (8.30) - he's mad (contemptuous distance)

Complex Constructions

1. Relative clauses:

   • "illum hominem quī ōrātiōnem habet" - that man who is speaking

   • "illōs quī corpus occīdunt" - those who kill the body

2. Indirect statement:

   • Notice how "ille dīcit ea quae..." (8.24) introduces reported thought

3. Substantive use:

   • "illud quod dīcit" - "that which he says" (neuter for abstract concept)

Word Order for Effect

The dialogue shows natural Latin word order variations:

• Verb-final for emphasis: "perīculōsa sunt" (8.18)

• Verb-first for urgency: "Fugiāmus per illam viam!" (8.27)

• Split constructions: "illa verba...perīculōsa sunt" (8.18)

This genre section demonstrates how "ille" functions in rapid, emotional exchanges, where speakers must quickly identify people, places, and ideas while conveying urgency, fear, and political tension.

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About This Course

The Latinum Institute's Conversational Latin course represents a unique approach to learning Classical Latin as a living language. These lessons are designed specifically for autodidacts - self-directed learners who want to acquire Latin through natural, conversational patterns rather than traditional grammar-translation methods.

The course curator, Evan der Millner BA MA (Cantab. NZ, London), has been pioneering online language learning materials since 2006. His method, detailed at latinum.substack.com and latinum.org.uk, emphasizes:

• Construed texts: Breaking down Latin into comprehensible chunks that mirror natural language acquisition

• Authentic materials: Using real Latin texts from classical and medieval sources

• Conversational focus: Presenting Latin as it was actually spoken and written, not as a puzzle to decode

• Progressive difficulty: Building from simple constructions to complex literary passages

Each lesson in this series follows a consistent structure that supports independent learning:

• Interleaved translations that make meaning transparent

• Natural Latin sentences showing varied word order

• Clear grammatical explanations tailored for English speakers

• Cultural context that brings the language to life

• Literary excerpts that connect learners to Latin's rich textual tradition

The Latinum Institute has earned recognition for its innovative approach, as evidenced by reviews at Trustpilot. The method particularly suits adult learners who appreciate understanding not just what Latin means, but how and why it works as it does.

For further resources and to connect with a global community of Latin learners, visit the Latinum Institute's main platforms. Whether your goal is reading classical literature, understanding medieval texts, or simply enjoying Latin as a beautiful and logical language, these lessons provide a solid foundation for lifelong learning.

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